Radical Goddess Thealogy - A Woman's Holy War?
Radical Goddess Thealogy:
Sisters Athana and Lisa have posed this question:
"In her comment about yesterday's post, Lisa asked: 'I wonder how many centuries before us Goddess worshippers get so frustrated with 'patriarchy' that we become obsessive pseudo-Athena/Diana huntresses or something. What would a Goddess-worshipper holy war/crusade be like?'
Very interesting question!
I'll answer with more questions:
Would it be best to call such a conflict a holy war, a crusade, or a revolution? Or would that make any difference? (I'm reading Van Tyne's The Loyalists in the American Revolution....)
Could, should and would we get men to join us in battle?
What would happen if we didn't or couldn't interest men in joining our side? Could women win such a war alone?
Would such a war (or revolution) necessarily need to be violent, or could we win with something non-violent?
Could Ghandi teach us anything?
What if we were fairly certain we had only two choices: a Goddess Holy War, or the annihilation of the human species. Would kind of power and energy might that give us? Give others?
What if at least 50% of the world truly understood, on a deep-gut level, that before God the Father, during God-the-Mother times, we humans lacked war, violence, poverty, slavery, social divisions, hierarchy, hunger, and ennui -- all the stuff that's killing us now, and making life almost unbearable for many in our human global family. What kind of power might that realization give us? Give others?
Would, could and should this be a global war?
How could the internet be used? I have no answers to any of these questions. Just throwing them out. But Lisa -- great question. Thanks!"
Excellent topic for discussion. I would prefer the term 'Reawakening' to Revolution, but it may come to that anyway. Men typically behave with violence when women start to assert themselves as people. Just look at the trolls that pester us on line.
I've said before that I believe the key to moving in that direction is getting people to really grok the Gaia Hypothesis. Once people get that the Universe, the Earth within her, and Earth's own Nature, are a distinctly female organism of which we are only a part, then it gets easier for people to call Her Goddess.
We wouldn't have to call for a Holy War - we'd get one no matter how non-violent our approach. Should men join us in battle? No.
I'm sorry to say that, but on a collective level, their loyalties would be against us, and they couldn't be trusted.
Women would have to win the "war" on their own, but violence would only be necessary at the end, when the men realized there was no other way to oppose us. We could absolutely do it alone.
The only thing men control is money and political power. The world works on this value system because it is built to exploit the work of women for the benefit of the power structure. When we refuse to allow our reproduction to be controlled, or our sexuality limited, they lose a valuable resource. When we stop working for their benefit, the world grinds to a halt.
I think women need to call a general strike to emphasize that we won't accept any compromise on Roe v. Wade. Imagine if every pro-choice woman didn't go to work on the same three days. What would that do to the economy? What would it do to the stock market? The airlines? Business offices? Local governments? Hospitals? Schools? It is completely within our power to bring this culture to its knees without firing a shot. All that is needed is solidarity. There would naturally be some "male-identified" females of the conservative ilk, but if you look at the demographics, they are going to be a much older, wealthier group that contributes to the power structure anyway.
Quote: ""What if we were fairly certain we had only two choices: a Goddess Holy War, or the annihilation of the human species. Would kind of power and energy might that give us? Give others? "
IF?!?! We're there, ladies. We've got followers of Yahweh determined to bring on Armaggedon in the White House and they've got nukes. They're decimating the environment because they intend to make sure there's no future to plan for. Look at this drastic weather we are having - deforestation, ocean drilling, global warming, ice caps melting, North Atlantic current in danger. Earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes are all setting records. Killer heat waves, tornadoes where they've never had them before, drought, floods, famine. Genocide in Africa and a plague on the planet. It may already be too late. Gaia may have to wipe out the human race to save herself. I don't believe we have an option but to call on Women to act as one.
"What if at least 50% of the world truly understood, on a deep-gut level, that before God the Father, during God-the-Mother times, we humans lacked war, violence, poverty, slavery, social divisions, hierarchy, hunger, and ennui -- all the stuff that's killing us now, and making life almost unbearable for many in our human global family. What kind of power might that realization give us? Give others?
That's a huge, but necessary leap. That's why we have to educate our readers in the concept of Matriarchy and in the true Herstory of the planet. When people realize that the violence and greed that are so admired in the culture of men is NOT a natural part of the human condition, change becomes possible.
People think they are violent by "Nature". Nature doesn't include senseless violence. Animals kill to eat, not for pleasure. Only males compete for position in the wild, but they don't all do that. There have been human cultures, like the Tasaday tribe, who never conceived of violence - when they were discovered, they didn't know what violence was. It would take a few generations, but we could get back to that in a Goddess culture.
It should absolutely be a global war. It may have to start with us, but women everywhere would rise up when they saw it working. There are more of us than there are men, but we have to remember that some countries have a genocide against women. There are 5 million fewer women than there normally would be in India and China because female fetuses are being aborted. If that is allowed to continue or spread, we will all be nothing but slaves.
"How could the internet be used?" Education. Networking. Sharing information, organizing actions. This is the tool we've been waiting for - it allows us to reach out from our isolation, to connect with other Goddess women, to bring the Goddess up from the collective unconscious into full blown consciousness. How we start is giving the Goddess Her props.
For example, Beliefnet claims to represent all religions, yet the quiz on their site is completely male-centric. Everytime we see the word 'Goddess' we need to insist that it be capitalized; we need to object when panels on TV claim to be diverse when everyone on them practices a patriarchal religion. We need to object when the word "religion" is used to signify generic Christianity. We need to point out that some of us don't pray to males.
These are all small things, but they are part of an overall assumption that maleness and monotheism is "normal." By demanding equal time, we become part of the dialogue, and we begin to affect the culture.
Another thing that is going to be necessary is for the "feminist movement" to stop being embarassed by talk of the Goddess. We can't allow our sisters to continue to marginalize us. There has to be room for women's religion in the women's movement or it's a fraud.
Solidarity. That's the key.



















10 Comments:
A few generations? That's pretty optimistic, don't you think? It's been almost 500 years since Martin Luther, and try though they might, Protestants haven't killed all the Catholics yet, though they did do pretty well with the idigenous people on the North American continent... They actually did that pretty quickly too. What we need then is to figure out a communicable disease that women are immune to and use that!
Sorry, I'm being completely too sarcastic, I'll stop. But this entire dualist diatribe, matriarchy versus patriarchy, women or men, is the same with us or against us dichotomy that is the problem with this current system... If it is so ingrained in our revolutionaries, how is any change possible.
Existence is not cyclic, it's a spiral. Things tend to go around and repeat familiar patterns, but each time, this new path deviates just a little from the last. If a utopic worldwide matristic era ever did exist, it is the past. Extremes one way or the other are never healthy anyway. The way to go forward (instead of becoming consumed with nostalgia for a past no one remembers) would be to create a future in which male, female, and all those in between are respected, safe, and happy.
Replacing the god of Abraham with Isis, aggression with nurturance, whatever, will just cause new problems, because again, half the population will feel ignored. (Not to mention those that do not identify with the female/male gender ideology anyway!) We need to go forward with something completely new.
LIsa, have you read any of the descriptions of Matriarchy I've posted? Look for the 3 "Mothers and Others" posts in the sidebar. Matriarchy is not Patriarchy in a skirt. It's a different system altogether, where the genders would be equals in practice. It's pretty much what you just stated that we need, you just haven't learned that that IS matriarchy.
The question that was posed was could there ever be a gender war. Well, we live in one, so obviously it's possible. The question was what would it look like - I described it. If you didn't want people to entertain your question, why did you ask it? We gave you the respect of considering your question - your reaction almost seems as if you were baiting us to get something to criticize. I hope that's not the case, because it's a waste of everyone's time and some of us have work to do.
I don't believe in a dichotomy. The male is derived from and contained in the female. You're taking my description out of the context of the post it replied to. It's not either/or - it's "and". I don't believe in only two genders. I don't believe men are inferior, just newer, and according to a growing body of scientists, quite possibly temporary - though that would take thousands of years barring some kind of catastrophe. I think we'll get along better when they realize they aren't "made in God's image" but are born from their mothers like everyone else.
I believe Patriarchy is an unnatural state that was imposed by violence and justified with monotheism. There is no such thing as "an extreme in either direction" unless you buy into the dichotomy. I don't, but I'm a pragmatist. We have to get through the rape culture and the concept that women are property to get away from this and most men aren't going to like it - they make too much money and enjoy too much advantage from the way things are.
If you're looking for a gender-free representation of the divine, you'll only be disappointed here. I believe that existence is female, and I'm doing research to support that theory. Yes, I am optimistic. An occupied people have to have hope, or they stay occupied.
I disagree with your spiral image. Energy can exist in a spiral, but humans tend to follow more of an ebb and flow. I'm not predicting a Women's Holy War - I'm just describing what it would be like if it happened. Yes, there are aspects of the description that describe what we as women need to do - I'm a strong believer in education and solidarity.
As for the "past no one remembers" - people do remember it, the evidence of it exists, and it's a valid course of study. Those who do not know their past are doomed to repeat it. In this case, those who don't know their history believe the lies that keep them oppressed.
Most of what we've been taught is not true. History is written by the winners, and it's written to make them look good. There is distinct benefit in knowing that a different system did exist at one point, and that it worked.
I think the internet is a huge tool for us. It's pretty much how I found Goddess spirituality. The only problem with it is it's dependant on a societal structure that can't last, an economy based in the exploitation of nature. I can't even concieve of how much resources and energy it must take to generate all the electricity needed to keep all these computers running and connected. I think we definitely need to make use of it while we can, for networking and education, but pair that with similar efforts where we live. Think globally, act locally kind of thing.
If you didn't want people to entertain your question, why did you ask it? We gave you the respect of considering your question - your reaction almost seems as if you were baiting us to get something to criticize. I hope that's not the case, because it's a waste of everyone's time and some of us have work to do.
Sorry, I'm a religion major, and we just ask questions sometimes to ask questions, to let our minds stretch around something, force of habit. By playing devil's advocate, I forget that outside of meaningless acadamia, people can take it as meaningful. It wasn't my intent.
I have read your posts, but when I wrote that I guess what I had in my head was more the things I've heard around my (all girl) campus, lots of scapegoating of Christianity. I don't know where these women pick Christianity from, but what they term patriarchy begins millenia before that, and it gets annoying. If it had only been Christianity, women might actually be in a MUCH different place right now. Anyway, moot point. By "past no one remembers," I didn't mean I doubt the past existence of it, trust me I know it did, I just meant that it is not in the conscious memory of anyone who now exists, even if they are aware of it as a concept.
I guess I just hate buzzwords, labels, etc. The language we use makes a big difference, and I find the very term Matriarchy elitist and divisive, just like the term Feminist. The theories may claim to be inclusive, but the names aren't even!
And my "question" was specifically about a Goddess-worshipper holy war, so maybe I just personally think about Dianic Wiccans when I use that term, and in my experience, they give me that matriarchy=patriarchy+skirt vibe, whether unfounded or not, please excuse my ignorance.
Okay, real question this time: Would it really be: "Matriarchy is not Patriarchy in a skirt. It's a different system altogether, where the genders would be equals in practice. It's pretty much what you just stated that we need, you just haven't learned that that IS matriarchy." if on the outset it is admitted that men just wouldn't be able to handle it and are probably temporary anyway?
Again, I'm not trying to be combative or critical, I'm just trying to find out exactly what you mean before I could say that we agree on anything. You said you disagree with my spiral image, but all I tried to mean was that energy is a spiral, and what drives humanity is the spiral energy of the Goddess.
Have patience with me, and how I ask questions. I know that I phrase this awkwardly, but while we're blaming patriarchy, let me say this. When I left my parents' house, I had to escape a situation, and I still have years left ahead of me to relearn how to speak to normal people. I don't usually realize I'm being contrary because... Well, let's just say the example I lived with for the earlier part of my life was much different than most peoples'. I do agree that the best way to move forward is education and solidarity.
Morgaine, excellent, excellent ideas, as usual!
You say, "I think women need to call a general strike to emphasize that we won't accept any compromise on Roe v. Wade." What a thought! I suspect there's a silent but simmering disgust with evangelical wingnuts right now. The time may be more ripe now than ever to unite women in a common, critical cause.
Lisa, you so rightly say: "The way to go forward ... [is] to create a future in which male, female, and all those in between are respected, safe, and happy."
Then Morgaine (also so rightly) says: "Matriarchy is not Patriarchy in a skirt. It's a different system altogether, where the genders would be equals in practice. It's pretty much what you just stated that we need...."
It's a very common misconception that "matriarchy" is the reverse of patriarchy. They're not -- or they don't have to be. In my mind it boils down to this: when women have a little more of the final say in things, they have the ability to make sure everyone leaves the table full and satisified.... And I suspect that this has to do with the fact that women and not men are mothers. Women are predisposed to love their children -- male AND female -- unconditionally, no strings attached. All their children are love, no matter the sex. I am talking about the healthy-mother prototype, here, not the damaged mothers that one often finds in patriarchal systems.
Lisa-
When you put it in an academic context, it makes more sense to me - I understand that you are exploring, not ridiculing.
You've actually inspired a series of posts I'm going to start tonight about the American Matriarchy... not as far fetched as you might think!
I do understand about what you mean about patriarchy being confused with Christianity. I think there's a need to be specific about which manifestation of Christianity we are talking about. If you mean the actual teachings of the prophet Jesus, then yes, it gets a bad rap. That would have been a more egalitarian system. However, when modern Christianity becomes hung up on Old Testament principles that were instrumental in reinforcing patriarchal goals, it becomes a part of the problem. I usually differentiate between the two by referring to the latter as Christian Legalism and the State of Grace that was the gift of Jesus specifically as his teachings.
You also have to keep in mind that when I say "men" I'm talking about Western white men, primarily - the ones who benefit most from a patriarchal structure that exploits the work of women and minorities without compensation.
You are objecting to the word "matriarchy" because this culture hears an implied dominance in any "archy". I use the term to refer to a matrilineal system organized around motherhood and mother-kinship. The concepts of violence, greed and "power-over" are not a part of the matriarchal system.
Stay tuned.
I can't see much of anything good in Christianity in any of its manifestations. The man Christ never existed (see Walker). Hammering pieces of iron into a man's hands and feet, and forcing kids to stare at this once a week is barbarism. The notion of hell is barbaric -- it's a political ruse. EVen more pathetic, Hel was a volcano goddess to whose warm womb everyone returned; Christians barbarized this into their vase underground torture chamber. Jesus is male, his disciples male, and the only women allowed are prostitutes (and even if they weren't, the Mary's were still outnumbered 6 to 1). Furthermore, the entire New Testament is one gigantic head trip with nothing in it that speaks even one sentence to the senses (except for Psalms) -- people have no bodies, houses have no furniture, the ground is nothing but desert with no grass, the sun never shines, there are no clouds in the sky, etc., etc. Bloodless. Lifeless. Big Heads. STripped of all sensuality down to the ground made of dust without life. JEEZ! LET ME OUT!!
Oh -- and we put up with all of this -- hell, deserts, torture hanging in our sacred places, stripped senses, no women allowed -- for what? A little bit of "Love thy neighbor?" THE GODDESS HAD LOVE THY NEIGHBOR IN SPADES before these barbarians buried Her! And Her "Love thy neighbor" actually worked! No war! No violence! No poverty! We're talking about the time before the male gods reared their ugly heads, in about 3000 BC. It's in the archaeological record! And the archaeological record does not lie. NO WAR. No poverty. No violence.
You are objecting to the word "matriarchy" because this culture hears an implied dominance in any "archy".
Not really, more the matri- part, because I see it as the opposite of patri- and I get hung up in semantics, but I'm anal.
Athana, I have to say I pretty much used to agree with the anger you have toward "Christianity in any of its manifestations." For me, learning about it helped dispel that anger to indifference. I also learned that none of those women were secular prostitutes and were probably not hierodulae, and there were scores of women apostles, just as many with leadership roles. But as we say all the time on this blog, history is written by the winners. (Even though technically it still does write about the ministry of women, clergy have completely ignored this fact while preaching... Anyways...)
But whatever, I'm not saying everyone needs to go study Christianity so we can all have a group hug, it's just something I myself needed to do. For me, I just have a problem about be angry about something without knowing EXACTLY what I'm angry about... Like, I hate when people say "I'm against stem cell research because it kills babies," when it doesn't. I don't want to be one of those people. I know I think the Abrahamic religions are barbaric and disgusting, and when someone asks me why, I want an argument they cannot blow holes through... Gosh, I'm rambling again...
Morgaine- Yay, so glad we're clear now! This will be exciting! Let's rock on!
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